NOT BEING ABLE TO LEAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK FOR NON-PAYING BUYERS IS BULL!!! THEY DON'T GET ANY NEGATIVITY FOR BEING AN IRRESPONSIBLE EBAYER - SELLER IS THE ONLY ONE GETTING HURT! I'VE HAD 3 NON-PAYERS (2 THIS PAST WEEK) IN THE LAST 3 WEEKS - SO WHERE'S MY SAY AS A SELLER - NO WHERE!!! QUIT PROTECTING NON-PAYERS BY NOT LETTING SELLERS LEAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK!!!

I don't know who to contact about this. The buyer sends 5 feedbacks (4 DSRWatch items + 1 regular feedback) and all the seller can submit is 1 positive feedback? Go figure! Since this changed at the end of May, I have had 5 non-payers (1 finally paid yesterday, 2 never paid and I'm waiting for a reply from 2 others...1 is already trying to back out of the contract). It appears that ebay is not concerned about the sellers (Hard to believe that ebay is not concerned about the sellers because many sellers have ebay stock!). I called and was told that I should use the "block" format...block the buyer from my list (have been doing this before anyway). Unfortunatly, blocking only helps me after I never get paid. It doesn't help the other sellers either. If there is no negative or neutral feedback, how will the other sellers be warned about the bad buyers? Based on the positive feedback issue, DSRWatch and the increase in fees, my incentive is to send most of my stuff to local consignments.

Please if there is alternative to Ebay I will like to know. This hold situation is depressing.

To Chessspy:

To put things in perspective, sellers are not shipping before payment. The issue is lost time and money. The item sits on eBay for 7-10 days. Next, usually 10 days are lost trying to collect (Some are far more willing to try longer). 8 more days are lost after reporting the non paying bidder (NPB). A total of almost a month lost. The fees for insertion and any extra goodies are lost and at best the final value fee is recovered. EBay will cover the relisting fee, but with a very ridgid set of guidelines. There has been an enormous increase in the number of NPB's since eBay implemented this poorly thought out policy.

I have close to 500 feedback on this account and over 300 on another. I have never had a neutral or negative, but I know it's going to come soon. The buyer now has too much leverage without fear of paying for it.

I have started leaving "positive" feedback for NPB's. What's written is twenty-one "X"'s, followed by 2 spaces then "NON PAYING BIDDER", 2 more spaces, and then "X"'s to the end. It's very visible to any seller that see's it as the particular spacing works out well. Take a look at the feedback for mikecarson_64cv100 and you'll see what I mean.

Like so many eBay policies, this is just another example of how eBay mistreats those that generate their income. I know that another venue will open up and thrive on the malice that eBay has brought upon themselves. Any of you sellers who live in California and own any eBay stock should make a point of attending the eBay annual shareholders meeting and speak out loudly. Raise enough 773H ro get thrown out screaming. The media will love it and some of the big shareholders might be tempted to ask some questions.

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Edited by tripe2eat at 06/26/2008 1:54 AM PDT

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Edited by tripe2eat at 06/26/2008 1:55 AM PDT

Hello, I have only been on ebay since last fall, and since i started it seems like one thing after another has been taken away from sellers, it almost seems like someone whoever is making the rules got a bad deal once and is taking it out on every seller now, it is hard to understand when you feel like you are being punnished for somthing that happened before you got here, my pays have slowed alot since the new rules i am having to send second and some times third invoices more often, i can understand the score thing, in an example my mother in law got her first neg. after the rules went into effect it took her down to 96% on her feedback, i sold to a buyer that had 98% so i thought well she has one or somthing when she did not pay and i went in to check her feedback before i reported her she had 7 no pays in the last 12 months now tell me where that makes any sense, i know its a percentage thing but still 7 no pays and you are still doing it with no re-percussions? go figure, I was a participant in the blackout we had and it pains me but i do not think that we have a way to be heard, the black out did not seem to have any impact some times i feel like ebay would like to run off all the little sellers so that they can just collect big commissions on the major sellers all this is just my 2 cents worth i saw your group and it peaked my interest thanks for letting me bend your ears sincerely lorrie b -- If there be any kindness i may show to any living thing, let me do it now, for i may not pass this way again (unknown) -- Edited by froghollercreations at 06/26/2008 3:37 AM PDT

Luv, Lorrie B

Hi, Customized,
Can we put this misconception about where the money come from to rest please.
The money which is divided between the sellers, paypal and ebay comes from the buyers not the sellers.
How could it be otherwise?
Also, Regarding non payers,
The contract between buyers and sellers which is referred to when a buyer makes a bid is not enforceable at law, due to the considerable body of retail law and the DSR, ( Distance Selling Regulations) which state (in brief),that a buyer may order an item by mail order and then change their mind without penalty, also any goods delivered can be returned without reason within a reasonable period for a full refund including all postal and insurance costs where applicable.(both ways)
Sellers on ebay regularly flout and/or ignore these retail laws, and all ebay is doing is bringing their business model more into line with the laws already on the statute books.
You may not like it but these are the facts.

Hi, pooch,
you may disagree as much as you like, however that doesn't change the fact that the money actually does come from the buyers, (for example, how much money would ebay or paypal get from a seller who never sold anything?)
yo may regard ebay as a garage sale, however in reality it is a multi million dollar business which just happens to enfranchise lots of smaller agents.(sellers)
As I said before, the buyers rights are enshrined in law, and ebay may make up as many 'rules' as it likes about sellers not accepting returns, or any thing else for that matter, but as these 'rules' are not enforceable in law they might just as well not exist as they are meaningless if push comes to shove and some buyer decided to take a seller to court (about not accepting returns,) they would win.

But what would ebay sell with no sellers? I believe that we would not exist if there were no buyers but what atracts the buyers to ebay? SELLERS you cannot go browse in a store that has nothing for sale, and as a buyer on ebay i never remember being charged any fees for completion of sale or for looking at the listing or an admission fee just to log on... but as a seller listing fees, final value fees, pay whether it sells or not fees, all in all it ammounts to store rent and as renters dont we have renters rights? hmmm... Lorrie b

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If there be any kindness i may show to any living thing, let me do it now, for i may not pass this way again (unknown)

Luv, Lorrie B

sorry if i sound like im ranting chess, but i think i just got started at a time when everything was to a boiling point and ever since i started it has been "you cant do this anymore and you do not get that anymore" I do not even know what started it all from what i can gather there have been unscrupulous sellers taking advantage before and i know in a group this size it is virtually impossible to single any one out so they have to go uniformly across the board but what a swipe they took all at once!, or so it seemed to someone reletively new, but i do think the rating system should go both ways it is just too bad that it had evedently been used as a weapon before
has anyone had the 21 day hold put on your funds yet? i have not i was just wondering how much of a pain that little rule has caused, lorrie b

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If there be any kindness i may show to any living thing, let me do it now, for i may not pass this way again (unknown)

Luv, Lorrie B

Hello....I have a comment as both a seller and a buyer...As a seller I wasam under the impression that FB is to be left based on what my buyer did, for example, if they paid in a timely fashion I was to leave positive FB for their part, which I have always done...then if there is a problem when they receive the item I deal with it in the most fair manner....but, I do not threaten them with negative FB if they don't do as I say...in fact, wouldn't because they did nothing wrong..they paid on time and that's all I asked them to do...I normally purchase insurance and always purchase delivery confirmation even if they don't pay for that...I just feel better if I do that...

As a buyer, however I have found that sellers will not leave me FB until I receive my item from them and leave FB that is satisfactory to them...I think the whole issue of change came about to stop sellers from leaving retaliatory FB for buyers who did nothing wrong...for instance...I received a broken items so I took a picture of it still in the box it was shipped in to show the damage to the seller and emailed the picture to the seller....I did not purchase insurance as it was shipped UPS and insurance is included up to 100.00 when you ship by UPS....anyway...the seller then told me it was not their problem that the item had broken and refused to do anything about it...but not only that, they basically dared me to leave negative FB and said if I did they would 'return the favor'.....I had paid on time and followed all their instructions...why should I have had to worry about receiving negative FB from a seller who clearly was responsible for what happened??..They wanted me to send back the item at my expense for a refund of only the purchase price, not my return shipping and they were also going to charge a 'restocking' fee so it was not worth it to send it back...and a restocking fee for what? A broken item?...I was told by my UPS driver that they already filed a claim with UPS because he came to my house to inspect the package for the claim...The driver told me they would receive a full refund for their shipping and the cost of the item, plus my return shipping to them...so why should I have paid to send it back and then never get reimbursed for that by the seller who was going to get 100% of the money they spent shipping it to me and also the money I spent sending it back to them...they were so intimidating and mean in their emails to me that I just never left any FB at all, as I am a part time seller and their negative FB would have lowered my score to the point that I would have had a hard time selling after that...I have kept track of that particular seller and since then they have received many negative FB from other buyers and before the rules changed, they left negative with foul language right back to the buyers...that is unfair! Now they just answer the negative FB with a positive with a very negative comment so they're still able to harass people even though it looks like a positive...not fair!

There needs to be a middle ground in all of this....my suggestion is that when a person buys something and pays according to the expectations of the buyer, that buyer should have to leave FB within 3 days of receiving their payment...if they do not, then they shouldn't be able to leave FB at all...then if there is a problem later it will eliminate the possibility of unwarranted/retaliatory FB from sellers...

About returns...I do not advertise that I accept returns, however I am fair...if something happens and it was my fault, such as a broken item or something I failed to see such as a flaw, I either do partial or full refunds depending on the situation and do not ask people to send things back, however I do ask for photos of the damage so I can see what I am dealing with...thank goodness this has only happened twice since I've been a member of eBay...most people I have dealt with have been extremely nice people and for that I am thankful...I try very hard to communicate with people who buy from me...I send 3 emails...1 to thank them for their purchase....2nd to give them a tracking # (I always use delivery confirmation) and 3rd to let them know I left them FB and if they have any problems with my items to contact me before leaving negative FB....I guess I have overall been very lucky at both selling and buying, but now I'm a little more leery about selling as a lot of my friends are having problems with nonpaying bidders and having trouble getting any of their fees back from eBay...I just wish there was an answer that was fair for both buyers and sellers...

Sorry for rambling...didn't mean to...thanks for listening...

This inane change in the Feedback system (which definitely a something that was working fine and did not need 'fixing') is totally illogical and unfair.

I will provide you an example. I sold a BigFoot GoPed last month to one '**madmax' on a 10-day listing that attracted many bidders. This guy in AR jumped in and 'won'. Then, within about an hour had sent me an email saying he wasn't going to buy after all as he had car trouble. After several email exchanges, in which he showed remarkable disrespect for eBay and the process in general, it was clear he would not complete his deal. I have to go through the process of dealing with eBay to get a refund and he 'walks' free.

For eBay to work as the market now exists there is one thing that would change everything.

That would be wheh you sign-up for use of eBay as a buyer and provide your credit card info, when you buy eBay sends the bill and collects the money automatically from their credit card account (just as with any commercial transaction). eBay then pays the seller when shipping to the buyer is confirmed.

This would scare away all the cheats and timewasters, drunks, nitwits and others who are little by little killing not only eBay, but the spirit of eBay's sellers.

In reality, it is a fact that eBay hasa become too big, too much of a monopoly, too unresponsive to and disinterested in the sellers (who are seen only as cash cows).

The first viable competitor that comes along that has rules more like Gunbroker.com will clean eBay's clock.

I would suggest everyone join Power Sellers Unite. It is off Ebay so i cant link it. But it has 1000s of members, all Ebayers, present and past. You dont have to be a power seller to join. It was started by ebay Power Sellers several years ago and gives all the latest on Ebay and other sites. Go to the forums and read them. It also has hourly updates on the number of listings on Ebay and about 15 other sites. I also belong to a concern users group if you email me I will give you that link. Lu -- I love golf!! Get well soon Tiger!! -- Edited by fromlu2you at 06/27/2008 5:59 AM PDT